Older blog entries for modus (starting at number 12)

Chris Blizzard wrote:

Hrm. Well, I'm not against having a splash screen for mozilla but it was voted down pretty hard by the community. Plus, it added some nasty dependencies in the wrong places.

As for a SIGTERM in the launcher script I think that's a bad idea. We need to fix it the right way with lock files and timeouts. Some of that means we need to change things in mozilla but that's OK IMHO. It's not more than a few days work but it's still pretty low on my list of things to do.

Well, I've been thinking pretty hard about this, and I'm surprised that the "mozilla -splash" flag was "voted down ... by the community." It makes me wonder whether the "community" that Chris is referring to here has had much experience with public, shared terminals and donated hardware. It seems like most Mozilla developers probably have their own computers which would blow away the dual-P166, 64MB SDRAM Cafe Freebox -- and they don't have to worry about the 45-second delay that the Cafe User experiences while waiting for Netscape or Mozilla to load.

I think it's also generally true that Linux power users who actually know what's happening when they click on a button are more inclined to wait a minute than the Windoze-trained, point-and-drool crowd, who expect instant feedback from their GUI. Unfortunately, 90% of the folks who use my GNOME install are the impatient sort.

In the context of the Cafe, a tcl / wish wrapper that threw a little logo on the screen would be an easy enough hack. But it would be nice if I had access to a bigger lizard logo than just the GNOME panel icon. I should ask Mozilla logo designer Shepard Fairey whether he'd like to design a new logo for Mozilla's splash screen. Then again, I'm not exactly authorized to spend Mozilla's money hiring graphic designers just because they happen to be bold, iconoclastic young mavericks. :^D

Of course, Chris is also correct when he points out that the SIGTERM is no solution to a problem which should really be solved by lock files and timeouts. Hmm, the "led" script I use to lock and edit dist files for lists does that very thing, and I've already seen the source code for that. Maybe that's what I ought to base my wrapper scripts on.

wtf utsl
UTSL: use the source, luke

---

James S. Baughn
http://i-want-a-website.com/about-linux/
-
Humorix: Linux and Open Source(nontm) on a lighter note
Archive: http://humbolt.nl.linux.org/lists/
Web site: http://www.i-want-a-website.com/about-linux/

Even though I committed a major faux pas by mass-mailing all the Mozilla developers instead of checking their online help or lurking in the shadows of some listserv or irc #mozilla channel, Christopher Blizzard was open enough to actually take the time to thoughtfully respond to my query. This man deeply cares about Mozilla, it is obvious, or else he wouldn't have bothered to respond so personally to one of the myriad tiny cyber-gnats buzzing around his personal zillasphere.

I already moderated him as Master, so now I wish there was a higher compliment I could pay him.

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:32:06 -0500
From: Christopher Blizzard
To: Matt Obert
Subject: Re: mozilla -splash

Matt Obert wrote:

Hey Blizzard,

My name's Matt Obert, and I maintain a Freebox in the AS220 Cafe in Providence, RI. It defaults to GNOME and currently has three browsers installed: Navigator, Mozilla and Galeon.

Keepin' it short: there has been a problem with lack of application feedback. The Cafe User gets impatient while waiting for their browser to load, and generally hits the Launcher again several times, which slows everything down even further.

I've hacked this so that the launcher button issues a SIGTERM before booting, but it would be even better if Mozilla had a splash screen with the lizard logo (designed, by the way, by my good friend Shepard Fairey!) I'm not asking you to code it by yourself or anything, but if you could spread the word among Mozilla developers, that would be much appreciated.

Hrm. Well, I'm not against having a splash screen for mozilla but it was voted down pretty hard by the community. Plus, it added some nasty dependencies in the wrong places.

As for a SIGTERM in the launcher script I think that's a bad idea. We need to fix it the right way with lock files and timeouts. Some of that means we need to change things in mozilla but that's OK IMHO. It's not more than a few days work but it's still pretty low on my list of things to do.

--Chris

Oops.

Thanks for the look-out, Brian. I'll remember to check out irc.mozilla.org instead of emailing the developers directly next time.

Thankfully, I can't be moderated below Observer.

Most developers would object to being personally contacted about this sort of thing - reactions would range from your email being deleted without a response to massive flamage.

It would be much better for you to first read the mailing list archive for whatever mozilla mailing list is appropriate for this, to make sure this hasn't already been addressed. For good measure, check the FAQ and other parts of the web site. If that doesn't turn anything up, post to the mailing list. But please don't send private email to the developers - that would defeat the purposes of the mailing list (to scale well and to help the next guy who has the same question).

It looks like they use newsgroups instead of mailing lists:

http://www.mozilla.org/community.html

You also need to check the bug tracking system (Bugzilla) to see if 1) a bug has been reported and 2) where the developers are at in terms of dealing with the bug.

Here is the link for the bug tracking system:

http://www.mozilla.org/bugs/ I just did a quick search, and here is the bug you want:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27446

It appears that they are aware of the bug, it has been assigned, and someone is working on it. There is a duplicate of this bug at:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69598

But you can always double-check the newsgroups to see if it's been talked about lately.

Cheers,

Brian

Hey Mozilla Developers,

My name's Matt Obert, and I maintain a Freebox in the AS220 Cafe in Providence, RI. It defaults to GNOME and currently has three browsers installed: Navigator, Mozilla and Galeon.

Keepin' it short: there has been a problem with lack of application feedback. The Cafe User gets impatient while waiting for their browser to load, and generally hits the Launcher again several times, which slows everything down even further.

I've hacked this so that the launcher button issues a SIGTERM before booting, but it would be even better if Mozilla had a splash screen with the lizard logo (designed, by the way, buy my good friend Shepard Fairey!) I'm not asking you to code it by yourself or anything, but if you could spread the word among Mozilla developers, that would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your patience. If you're still interested in reading more, check out my diary at:

advogato.com/person/modus

I took Jim's advice and added the killall line to the properties in the GNOME panel launchers for all three browsers. A kludge, but an effective one. The "Cafe User" will learn very quickly to open a new browser window without clicking on the launcher again, because the launcher button will crash the app dramatically before starting a new instance.

I'm still thinking about the splash screen idea. I think I could write a tcl wrapper that just threw up a little window with a button that said, "Loading Mozilla, eh?" and give the person some instant feedback on this. Of course, it would be nicer if I could get the lizard logo in there, since it was designed by a good friend of mine (Shepard Fairey, of "Andre the Giant has a Posse" notoriety.) And it would be even nicer if we could include one of those silly animated thermometers that gradually changes color from left to right as the app loads, since the Windoze-trained "Cafe User" loves those little things. Unfortunately, I am not up to the challenge just yet. I'll be working on my quick-and-dirty version in the meantime.

Ctl-Alt-F-whatever took a while to clear the screen, but very soon I was able to type "ps aux" to find dozens of Netscapes, dozens of Mozillas, and at least five Galeons rampaging around the CPU. I rebooted after using "killall -12" on all the browsers.

One thing you could do is replace the launcher commands in the gnome panel as follows:

For mozilla,

killall -q mozilla-bin;mozilla
[killall sends SIGTERM by default]

and so forth. Or make wrappers that do this and put them in /usr/local/bin. Or do something that detects that a mozilla is already running and takes no action. But a killall approach should work.

--Jim

Ctl-Alt-F-whatever took a while to clear the screen, but very soon I was able to type "ps aux" to find dozens of Netscapes, dozens of Mozillas, and at least five Galeons rampaging around the CPU. I rebooted after using "killall -12" on all the browsers.

Part of the problem here is the lack of splash screens to pop up and let the user know what is going on. Mozilla seems to have a -splash option, but it doesn't do anything on my machine. Galeon doesn't seem to even have the option. Perhaps we should start complaining about this, as it isn't something that geeks have to worry about on their own machines.

--Tom