redi, we are in agreement. All I am saying is to have a trigger and a procedure, before deleting nodes, make a snap shot of trust-matrix and offending node's diary dump. So that if it offers genuine apology, it can download source with the data that has more meaning to the alien node than to the 'norm' community. what's more, if advogato's authentication model expands to local password store & openID or any third party authentication scheme, hjclub can setup a child-virgule site that allow existing advogatoer here to participate there as well. That's how virgule can expand its influence beyond Free software domain and English domain. cheerio.