CodeCon 2004 Call For Papers

If I submitted a paper with the last 3-4 weeks, do I need to submit it again?

I can't afford to attend, but even if I lived in the area, I wouldn't be able to.
I know(through irc) and have great respect for some of the people attending codecon. I hope that they feel same way about myself. I don't see why one would limit age like that. It offends me that just because I'm 19 I wouldn't be able to rub shoulders and discuss projects with my online peers.
Is there a legal reason for the age restriction? Maybe booze laws?

Will there be another benefit dinner for the California Community Colocation Project? (I'm involved with it, btw) It was one of the reasons I flew out last year and I think it was enjoyed by everyone.

I know I'm getting to be the proverbial broken record about this, but the age limit is a big problem for me, too. (Obviously many talented hackers of the present day are under 21; one award-winning developer who has even done a useful BitTorrent hack happens to have turned 17 this week, for example.)

At my first CodeCon, a guard turned me away because I had no photo ID with me (although it happened that I was over 21, I had no reason to have ID and to this day am concerned about the routinization of identification). Even without the age discrimination, requiring people to show government ID to participate in conferences is another bad trend CodeCon seems to have adopted from IDG's conference playbook.

While recognizing various reasons why the DNA Lounge and Club NV have been congenial venues from the point of view of CodeCon's organizers, I would renew my question: What is CodeCon doing to try to find an age-neutral venue?

First a reply to Judge: Yes, it sucks that you won't be able to be there. They aren't our rules, they are the venue's rules, and it isn't even CodeCon's responsibility to enforce them. (Frankly, we don't care if 10 year olds show up, as long as they have an interest in programming.) However, do have a responsibility to inform you of the age restrictions put in place by the city and enforced by the venue. I wouldn't want someone to travel many miles to attend CodeCon only to be turned away at the door because of an ID issue. (On the other hand, as long as there isn't underage drinking occuring, I have no concern regarding the age of my attendees if they manage to slip past the club's doorman somehow.)

Now, Mr. Schoen, please. You weren't turned away at the door at CodeCon 1 first of all -- I was there, remember? I made sure you wouldn't be forced to leave. Secondly, I admire your stance on not carrying ID. However, I cannot help but assume that you don't go out much. There is, to my knowledge, not a single 21+ night club in San Francisco that doesn't card at the door. The DNA Lounge is under even greater scrutiny than most, and so they are thorough about it. (In fact, it is partially due to the gruffness of the bouncers, and the complaints revolving around them, that CodeCon is no longer at the DNA. The other reasons involved space configurations, and were no fault of the DNA's.)

My point here is that I wish you would cease spreading the lie that CodeCon requires people to show government ID. I'm not sure what conferences IDG produces or if I have ever been to one, but your presumption there is incorrect. Neither the organizers of CodeCon, nor any of the staff, will ever demand ID. We ask for ID if you have pre-paid and are collecting a will-call ticket, but you can pay in cash. The doorman, an employee of the venue, may or may not ask to see ID if he feels he needs to verify your age. My advice: don't show it to him unless he asks for it. Cover your name. It's an age credential only, it is not recorded, and it is *not* required by CodeCon's staff.

(Yes, I think that mandating that venues be 21+ around the clock if they serve alcohol but not food is a really stupid law. Take it up with the city council.)

As for the last part of your question: the answer is "nothing". We are extremely happy with the current venue, and have no immediate plans to change its location. Last year Bram and I visited close to 20 night clubs between the two of us. The ones which were 18+ were all extremely unsuited for CodeCon for one reason or another. (The best fitting one happens to have a pizza shop in the front lobby area, which would have been open and crowding our space during two of the days of the event.)

I have to consider the interests of all of the attendees. I am certain that the decision to remain with a 21+ venue will mean that some bright programmers will be unable to attend, and I regret that. However, pulling together a conference of CodeCon's sort, with an extremely low budget and no paid staff is a difficult task. I do not believe we would be able to manage it if we weren't able to have it at a night-club, and I have not found an age-neutral night-club suitable for our conference. If you have suggestions, please let me know.

Also, you are all free to throw your own conferences. Neither Bram nor I had any professional event organization experience before CodeCon 1, and we have funded CodeCon each year on our credit cards. We are lucky if we make a four-figure profit, and usually aren't out of the red until the walk-on registrations show up. CodeCon exists because Bram and I believe it is important, and we are willing to donate a certain amount of time, effort, and financial risk to see that it goes well. Demanding that we change our formula or dramatically increase our effort, so that a small minority of possible attendees will be able to come will effectively make it so that we are unable to justify the effort of conducting CodeCon. If you think you can do it, by all means -- you have my full support.