Mob software

Posted 14 Aug 2001 at 17:42 UTC by advogato Share This

Richard P. Gabriel and Ron Goldman have posted an intriguing essay entitled Mob Software: The Erotic Life of Code. It presents a poetic vision of building software, with nice discussion of early Open Source, and of gift economies.

I first saw the link to this piece on Wes Felter's excellent Hack the Planet (which just turned three years old recently). There's also a link from lwn.

You've probably heard of Richard Gabriel - he's a Lisper from way back, and also founder of Lucid. More lately, he instigated the Jini project at Sun. The ideas are intriguing, to say the least.


No way to produce software or art, posted 15 Aug 2001 at 00:04 UTC by jbuck » (Master)

How many great artistic works can you think of that were created by a mob? Despite some interesting experiments by the surrealists, it really doesn't work. Good software, and good art, can come out of the contributions of many people, but for almost anything that ever succeeded, the work is built around a core design that is comprehensible to one skilled designer/artist, or maybe two or three who understand each other's thinking so well that they work together practically as one.

One reason why software sucks is that so much of it is already produced just the way the authors seem to want: lots of undisciplined people whacking away. Commericial software companies, free software, much of it is the same: lots of people spewing out lots of code with too little thought to design and hoping it can be fixed later.

Great masterpieces on a scale too large to be accomplished alone by a single person are planned. Always. Must be. But this is not antithetical to creativity, art, or the human spirit. The authors cite the example of the OED, but the OED has the quality it has because of the vision and determination of one individual, who was able to enlist an army of supporters in his vision. The vision, which was quite revolutionary at the time, was to take a scientific approach to language: trace the origins and use of words by their actual use, both currently and historically, rather than just asking some learned professor for his opinion, and include everything (well, given the constraints of the Victorian era).

Despite ESR's dictum "to many eyes, all bugs are shallow" I do not believe that NASA would develop more reliable software with 26,000 programmer/debuggers than 260. I'd rephrase ESR's comment to something like "given enough eyes, all shallow bugs will be found". A shallow bug is one that can be seen to be a bug given only the local context, for example, there's a comment followed by a conditional and the conditions are reversed: a greater-than test rather than a less-than test. Or, to take the classic example,

       DO 10 I=1.10
(the bug that once caused a space mission to be lost) is a shallow bug (hint: period instead of comma; spaces are ignored in Fortran, naming a variable declares it). But deep bugs won't be found this way.

Theorem-proving would be a better bet, but that takes rigor and training and discipline and the authors of this essay aren't turned on by that.

We need to have the solid engineering infrastructure in place before the wild and wooly stuff can be built on top.

Gabriel's leap, posted 15 Aug 2001 at 00:54 UTC by sej » (Master)

Dick Gabriel is an interesting and original thinker about the state of software engineering today. I resonate with his revisiting of the implications of Alexander's design pattern work. But he takes a leap of faith when inferring the phenomenom of the web implies the future direction of software belongs to the many. He fails to differentiate between a scripting language or markup language designed for widespread use, and the programming languages (and programmers) required to realize a scripting language or markup language. Sure many environments will come into existence with emergent properties, where the sum of users create something bigger than the original designers dreamed of. But it will still take concentrated and skilled efforts to create those user-friendly environments.

Sure, there will be a popular literature of scripting/markup languages, but it will be enjoyed for the end result, not for the intermediate representation. How many people enjoy reading HTML? Maybe there will be a greater appreciation for design patterns (in concrete form) among the few who create the interpreters used by the many, if people study what others have written, and experiment with building on top of existing foundations (or evolving those foundations). But believe me, that has not been a widespread activity to date. Far more people have read about Design Patterns in English than have ever studied a Design Pattern in the source.

set fuzz factor to 10, posted 15 Aug 2001 at 02:49 UTC by graydon » (Master)

I'm sorry, but this is a load of crap.

You can throw all the Biological, Genetic, Evolutionary, Chaordic, Dynamic Synergistic Buckminster Fuller and Dee Hock pap you want at it, but the only concrete point this article makes is that programming can be a good social activity as well as an engineering discipline, and that someday it'll likely be as widespread as writing, email, and the web in general. I'd like to see that day like anyone else.

But I don't for a minute buy that all today's software is "Levittown" and the future of software is a termite colony. Software is made for a variety of reasons by a variety of people, and each context demands a different approach.

This article is like someone bemoaning the fact that business documents are written in "monocultural" business-speak rather than Beat Poetry, which is clearly more Erotic, and hence better. It has a different purpose, audience, and context, hence it turns out different.

Software and Art in one sentence?, posted 17 Aug 2001 at 20:17 UTC by jum » (Master)

Every time I hear the words art and software in one sentence I have a gut feeling that there is something wrong. I do produce software for quite some time now, and I do feel more like a craftsman, not like an artist. I do want to produce software that works well and is useful to the ones who buy it. Thus I am more like the carpenter that builds a house, lots of small pieces that must be put together in long tedious work to finally see the whole.

Art is to me somthing entirely different. Art is to express ones feeling in some form that is understandable to others in some way.

Software Quality, posted 17 Aug 2001 at 20:28 UTC by Bram » (Master)

Current software is overgrown cobwebs. Any change breaks everything, and it has the general appearance of being old, dusty, and full of dead bugs.

What Gabriel is implicitly saying is that it's possible to make software out of play-doh, which can be easily cut into pieces and rearranged at will.

This sounds like a joke because no software today has this quality. It is ironic that architecture, which is much more inherently static, has been made much more flexible in practice. I find Gabriel's hope both plausible and inspirational. Hopefully it will make some headway into the culture of programmers who have completely internalized getting a pit in their stomach every time they have to alter a piece of software.

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