Kuro5hin is back :-) (www.kuro5hin.com)

if you wouldn't have posted it here, i'd have never found out. ;-)

i like kiro5hin,
it, slashdot and advogato to some extent target a similar audience, but each have a completely unique approach to handling user contribution.
kiro5hin has user moderation of articles,
slashdot has limited moderation of comments and browsing at a threshhold,
and advogato has no moderation but limits postings to a certain level one first needs to reach

now apart from usenet and mailinglists, is there any other model of handling weblogs and discussions?
i can't think of any feature that wouldn't somehow be covered by those three...

greetings, eMBee.

When did they get the .com? I've always used .org - not that it matters.

I doubt they ever got it.
www.kuro5hin.org

if you wouldn't have posted it here, i'd have never found out. ;-)

i like kiro5hin, it, slashdot and advogato to some extent target a similar audience, but each have a completely unique approach to handling user contribution. kiro5hin has user moderation of articles, slashdot has limited moderation of comments and browsing at a threshhold, and advogato has no moderation but limits postings to a certain level one first needs to reach

I hope the smiley was irony. Either way, eMBee has nicely made my point for me. Advogato and Slashdot have a crossover readership. However, Slashdot is a news site and Advogato is not. This item is news. It was posted to Slashdot two days ago.

Because Advogato has no moderation, members should try to show a little restraint. If this site starts to degenerate into "Check out the latest Linux kernel release" and "First post!" then it will have to start moderation, or stop operation.

I'm generally worried about the trust metric as people seem to escalate to Journeyer very quickly (myself included). Further, many people I have never met have certified me and did so before I had even announced any of the work I do. Perhaps some better guidelines on certification and posting are required?

Last quote (from the Loginakata - original source unknown):

O Nobly Born, if thou dost all these things, thy Wizardhood shall surely come upon thee; but not of a sudden, and not until after thy arrogant Mind hath more than half forgotten that such was its aim. For know this --- you may not by thyself in Pride claim the Mantle of Wizardry; that way lies only Bogosity without End.

Rather must you Become, and Become, and Become, until Hackers respect thy Power, and other Wizards hail thee as a Brother in Wisdom, and you wake up and realize that the Mantle hath lain unknown upon thy Shoulders since you knew not when.

(In this wise shalt thou travel the Way of the Child.)

It's The Loginataka, and I did find the original source. It was esr, and you can read a copy here amongst other places.

<person>emBee said:</person>

I hope the smiley was irony. Either way, eMBee has nicely made my point for me. Advogato and Slashdot have a crossover readership. However, Slashdot is a news site and Advogato is not. This item is news. It was posted to Slashdot two days ago.

They may have *some* crossover, but I don't read /. anymore and hadn't seen it mentioned anywhere that kuroshin is back. Just thought people might be interested.

Sorry, Mechanix

I don't see any reason why this shouldn't have been posted here. There's a lot of crossover readership, but doubtless there are people here who can't stomach the low S/N ratio of Slashdot (and fleeting timeframe to hold a conversation), who would be interested in Kuro5hin's resurrection. In my opinion, posting a notice here was a good idea.

As for the argument that this is news being posted, but that Advogato isn't meant to be a news site, I guess there's some food for thought there. On the other hand, this could serve as an impetus for an in-depth discussion of the pro's and con's of the approaches taken by Advogato, Kuro5hin and Slashdot. Such a discussion has the potential to lead to a synthesis of the best aspects of all three for a better model than any of them provides individually.

That sort of discussion seems eminently suited to Advogato, don't you think?

I hope the smiley was irony.

deven said:

On the other hand, this could serve as an impetus for an in-depth discussion of the pro's and con's of the approaches taken by Advogato, Kuro5hin and Slashdot.

anyways, back to the discussion:
we are already seeing the problems of each model:
people complain on slashdot about unresearched articles, the few story moderators there have a hard time keeping up with the number of submissions.
kuro5hin followers claim that this is no problem there.
and indeed, mistakes are cought by moderators, unfortunately not all moderators read the comments before moderating, so stories get posted anyways
and advogato? well this site requires a lot of self discipline and it will undoubtedly become more problematic in the future.

however i have some hope that we can avoid moderation by instead giving posters a chance to edit an article or even take it down after it was posted or have a second draft page, where discussion can start and then the article be moved to the frontpage. the author can then take the input from the discussion to decide what should happen to the article (front page, draft, removed, changed...)
greetings, eMBee.

Indeed, having article submissions posted to a drafts queue has been a planned feature of Advogato for some time. Only certified Advogoats would be able to read articles in the queue, and when they did, they'd be expected to provide constructive feedback. Unlike the various vote-based moderation schemes out there, final say over the article (post unchanged, revise, withdraw) would rest with the original author.

I have good hopes that such a mechanism would be a useful tool for people to improve their writing, and that this would raise the level of discourse on Advogato. Now I just have to get around to implementing it!

"I'm generally worried about the trust metric as people seem to escalate to Journeyer very quickly (myself included)."

Of course, because it's far too gross. It needs to have either a better/different trust metric for posting than "does development work" (based on the quality of the code from an average freshmeat.net entry). For example, I'm a "journeyer" which is defined as a "person who makes things happen" .. But there are a lot of these types of people around.

Perhaps (in the grand style of kuro5hin), another meta metric could be added which would allow a person to also be judged on what they contribute to advogato directly, instead of just on their software record. Either that, or more refinement to the possible flavours of advogato contributor :-)